Breakthrough Blog
 
Climate McCarthyism, Part I: Joe Romm's Intimidation Campaign
Joe Romm's recent attack on an independent journalist is further proof of his intimidation campaign aimed at squashing the debate over climate solutions. But bullying only works when nobody stands up to the bully. Jon Stewart has indirectly challenged the climate of intolerance. Will others?

Share

romm_mccarthy.jpg

Read Part 2: Equate Your Political Opponents with Holocaust Deniers
         Part 3: The Hyper-Partisan Mind
   and Part 4: The Headquarters in Washington

Update 2 (Nov 6, 2009 8:30 am PDT) Joe Romm has surreptitiously changed the headline to his attack on journalist Keith Kloor, from "Meet Trash Journalist Keith Kloor" to "Meet Blogger Keith Kloor." In the comments below, Brad Plumer retracts his misrepresentation of our views on geo-engineering and Superfreakonomics while continuing to downplay his role in hyping Romm's misrepresentations of the views of Stanford scientist Ken Caldeira, and refusing to acknowledge that he has done little to correct the record or rebuke Romm's McCarthyite tactics on his New Republic blog.

UPDATE: Thanks to everyone who has weighed in. It's been heartening to receive so many emails from activists and reporters thanking us for standing up to a bully. Yesterday, Center for Environmental Journalism Director Tom Yulsman affirmed our defense of journalists and weighed in on the importance of standing up against McCarthyite attacks. In the comments below, The New Republic's environment blogger, Brad Plumer distances himself from Romm's McCarthyite tactics - but then he insists that we agree with Superfreakonomics, even though we had made clear our disagreements with Levitt and Dubner in our original post below. Howard University Chemistry Professor Joshua Halpern comments below under a pseudonym, "Eli Rabbett," and claims that we are supported by a right-wing foundation and organization -- a smear we have repeatedly corrected throughout the blogosphere. Readers can decide for themselves whether the comments Plummer and Rabbett/Halpern are consistent with the pattern of behavior we describe below.

By Michael Shellenberger and Ted Nordhaus

If you want to understand how it is that the debate over global warming policies became so shrill, consider the recent pattern of behavior by the country's second-most read most-read climate blogger, Joe Romm.

Last month Romm emailed Stanford scientist Ken Caldeira for a quote so he could, in Romm's words, "trash" the authors of the new book, Superfreakonomics, which includes a discussion of a climate solutions that Romm hates.

"I want to trash them for this insanity and ignorance."

The reason we know this is because Caldeira forwarded the whole awkward interaction to the authors of Superfreakonomics, who had run the relevant sections of their book by Caldeira twice before publication for his approval.

Romm wanted to make sure Caldeira understood the impact his trashing of Superfreakonomics would have:

"My blog is read by everyone in this area, including the media."

Romm then added:

"I'd like a quote like 'The authors of SuperFreakonomics have utterly misrepresented my work,' plus whatever else you want to say."

And indeed Romm's attack had great impact, resulting in scathing attacks on the book by The New Republic's Brad Plummer, Grist's David Roberts, UC Berkeley economist Brad DeLong, liberal blogger Matthew Ygleisas, and Nobel Laureate and New York Times columnist, Paul Krugman, who acknowledged that he had not read the book but said, "I trust Joe Romm."

He shouldn't have. What Ken Caldeira said to Romm about the misquote was the following:

"[The Freakonomics authors] sent me the draft and I approved it without reading it carefully and I just missed it. ... I think everyone operated in good faith, and this was just a mistake that got by my inadequate editing."

In this context, a former editor of Audubon Magazine, Keith Kloor, objected:

[O]ne of Romm's constant themes at Climate Progress is that the mainstream media is incompetent and unscrupulous when it comes to climate reporting. Well, feeding a source a quote is a serious breach of journalistic ethics.

But, Romm claimed,

It is exceedingly common in regular journalism to ask people for a quote that makes a very specific point -- I've been asked many times by reporters to do similar things.

Kloor wasn't buying it.

At NYU, where I've been an adjunct journalism professor, I couldn't imagine telling a student this was acceptable behavior. In fact, in the five years I've taught classes there, I can't recall when a student has even asked if this was acceptable behavior. I mean, it just feels wrong to do that kind of thing.

Romm stayed quiet for a week and a half. Then, last Sunday morning, Romm let it rip with this headline:

"Meet Trash Journalist Keith Kloor"

Romm goes on:

Day in and day out, Kloor just trashes people who disagree with him.

Take a minute and pause at what is going on here. Romm, who had just asked Stanford professor Caldeira for a quote to "trash" the authors of Superfreakonomics, has just accused reporter Keith Kloor of being trashy.

You don't have to be a Jungian psychoanalyst to see the projection at work.

Romm claims Kloor has attacked Romm's parents, but Kloor does nothing of the sort. Kloor simply refers to Romm's own claim that he knows journalistic ethics because his parents were reporters at a Hudson Valley newspaper. Kloor jokes that he should call reporters at the newspaper to see if they actually do feed quotes to sources like Romm did to Caldeira.

Romm procedes to suggest that Kloor "even threatens to try to dig up some dirt on my late-father" and "this is simply beyond the pale even in the tough to-and-fro of the blogosphere."

Well, yes, if Kloor had threatened that, it would be beyond the pale. But Kloor didn't. As is customary for him, Romm is careful to never link to Kloor's post and it's clear that his loyal commenters never bothered to read it. Romm lies about Kloor's post, and then conjures fake outrage about it. Given that Romm routinely refers to his late journalist father when justifying his unethical practices, Kloor is entirely justified in asking what it is exactly that Romm learned from his father.

Romm at one point says that Kloor "brags" that he is adjunct professor at NYU's journalism program. It's just another character attack. Kloor never brags of his title, he just says what it is.

The projections just pile up. Who is it, again, that "brags" "trashes" and "threatens"?

Bullying, Wikipedia notes, is not just schoolyard stuff but happens in the workplace. It's not just direct physical violence, it's also indirect violence, like smearing people's reputations. Wikipedia notes that such bullying takes place with the consent of the employer, as is apparently the case with Romm's employer, the Center for American Progress:

Unlike the more physical form of school bullying, workplace bullying often takes place within the established rules and policies of the organization and society.... Particularly when perpetrated by a group, workplace bullying is sometimes known as mobbing. It can also be known as "career assassination" in political circles.

Career assassination indeed.

These days especially, journalists are an easy mark. Journalists are perhaps the most insecure professionals in America. Reporters fear for their future, and with good reason. Bureaus are closing, journalists and editors are getting laid off, and whole newspapers and magazines are going under. Reporters who are insecure for their futures are easy prey for bullies like Romm, whose attacks are aimed at having a chilling effect on the entire national press corps.

What are the warning signs that one is dealing with a bully? Wiki names, "Quickness to anger and use of force, addiction to aggressive behaviors, mistaking others' actions as hostile, concern with preserving self image, and engaging in obsessive or rigid actions." Bullies, Wiki notes, "will even create blogs to intimidate victims worldwide."

The character assassination, the bullying, the psychological projection -- it all adds up to Climate McCarthyism, and Joe Romm is Climate McCarthyite-in-chief. Joe Romm's "Global Warming Deniers and Delayers" play the same role as Joe McCarthy's "Communists and Communist sympathizers." While Romm built a loyal liberal and environmentalist following for attacking right-wing "global warming deniers" -- a designation meant to invoke "Holocaust denier" -- he spends much of his time attacking well-meaning journalists (e.g. here, here, and here), academics (here and here) and activists (here, here and here) who take the issue of global warming seriously, accept climate science, and support immediate action to address it. His aim is to intimidate and prevent increasing numbers of people from questioning climate policy orthodoxy, and especially Democratic efforts to pass cap and trade climate legislation.

And make no mistake, Joe Romm's political agenda is as mainstream among liberals today as Joe McCarthy's was among conservatives in 1953. Romm is held up by Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman, UC Berkeley's Brad DeLong,The New Republic's Brad Plumer, Grist's Dave Roberts, and New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman as an inspiration. He works for John Podesta, Obama's transition director and head of Center for American Progress. And he is the leading spokesperson for Waxman Markey climate legislation that passed the House, and Kerry-Boxer legislation in the Senate.

Think about it: If you're an ambitious young Democratic Hill staffer, a liberal policy analyst, or a struggling young reporter, why would you ever stand up to a guy who is famous for first trashing people to their editors, employers and funders in private emails, and then, if that doesn't work, in public blogs? Why would you challenge someone who seems to have so much of the liberal establishment on his side?

Romm's McCarthyism is apparently contagious, as Krugman now seems to see it as his role acts as an enforcer of the orthodoxy, issuing this chilling warning in the wake of the Superfreakonomics controversy:

[I]f you're going to get into issues that are both important and the subject of serious study, like the fate of the planet, you'd better be very careful not to stray over the line between being counterintuitive and being just plain, unforgivably wrong.

Get that? Not just wrong -- "unforgivably wrong." That's a pretty amazing judgment against a book suggesting an alternative strategy for dealing with global warming. When we think of unforgivably wrong, we tend to think of things like, say, getting thousands of people to drink cyanide-laced Kool-Aid. But suggesting we should consider shooting sulfur dioxide particles into the sky to cool the earth? That's unforgivable?

We take Caldeira's view:

"I believe the authors to have worked in good faith. They draw different conclusions than I draw from the same facts, but as authors of the book, that is their prerogative."

Now, neither of us are fans of the idea of shooting sulfur particles into the sky. Too many risks and possible unintended consequences (some quite predictable). But we, like Caldeira, support funding for research, and are open to changing our minds.

In the end, the purpose of bullying is not simply to victimize individuals, it's to intimidate the bystanders. What most bystanders want is to not be attacked by the bully. It ruins your day and threatens your career. So if you are a reporter you hew to the climate orthodoxy because, well, after all, look at what Romm did to Keith Kloor.

This is the state of liberal debate about climate change. Those who question apocalyptic predictions are treated as global warming deniers or traitors or worse. Those who advocate solutions other than cap-and-trade have their characters assassinated. Those who stand up to Joe Romm find themselves turned into projection screens by an angry and vindictive bully.

Joe McCarthy, like Romm, was compulsive in projecting his own dark side onto others. In 1943 McCarthy defeated Senator Robert LaFollette by claiming that LaFollette was a war profiteer because he had made $47,000 in stock market profits during the war; it turned out that McCarthy himself had made $42,000 doing the same thing. McCarthy also lied about his war record in order to construct an identify for himself as a war hero.

Joe Romm, like Joe McCarthy, is full of rage -- one of the most salient characteristics of bullies. McCarthy was defended in his day as being full of passion. Likewise, Romm's excesses are often excused by his admirers as well-intentioned and a reflection of his deep passion for his cause. Both defend their bullying as necessary. "McCarthyism is Americanism with its sleeves rolled," McCarthy said in 1952.

While McCarthy had a disturbingly long run, he was eventually challenged for his tactics, most famously by the Army's chief legal counsel who said, during Senate hearings, "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?" at which point the audience in the hearing room broke into applause.

Another key turning point was when CBS Newsman Edward Murrow directly challenged McCarthy in a series of nationwide television broadcasts. Some now point out that Murrow waited until the worm had already turned, with many smaller reporters doing the spadework exposing McCarthy's bad deeds. But what it finally took was establishment leaders standing up to the bully.

Maybe it's already begun to happen with Romm. In response to the egregious "trashing" of Superfreakonomics by Romm, Krugman, DeLong, Plummer, Yglesias and many others, Jon Stewart finally stepped in last week, inviting the book's co-author and economist Steven Levitt, onto "The Daily Show."

Stewart opined:

I have been somewhat surprised by how angry people are. Because you don't deny global warming, or that CO2 isn't a factor, but they feel you are betraying environmentalism? The world?...Why are people so angry about this? Why do they have to be so dogmatic?

There will always be bullies like Joe Romm -- they are not the problem. It is the the establishment figures who goad them on, and the bystanders who could speak up but do not, fearing the consequences of doing so. If we are to move to real solutions to global warming, and protect some level of basic human decency, Joe Romm and his enablers must be challenged. For Climate McCarthyism isn't just bad for climate policy, it's anathema to liberal and democratic values.

Further reading:

Climate McCarthyism Part 2: Equate Your Political Opponents with Holocaust Deniers

Climate McCarthyism Part 3: The Hyper-Partisan Mind

Climate McCarthyism Part 4: The Headquarters in Washington

"The Green Politics of Personal Destruction"

   Like what you see? Subscribe to our RSS feed here...


Share


TrackBacks (0) 70 COMMENTS:

Thank you for this excellent challenge to those who use intimidation to advance their agendas in climate politics. Everyone on this planet is faced with serious environmental problems, including those related to climate change. To solve those problems, we have to find ways of working together, and this requires mutual respect. Let's all find ways of raising the standards of our conversations, even when--and especially when--we disagree with one another.
Best
Michael

I'm standing at my desk giving you my applause.

Thank you Michael and Ted for these courageous words. As a student at Stanford University and close observer of the energy and climate debate, it has been tragic and frustrating to see so few with the guts to stand up and say exactly what you've said here: Joe Romm's practices are antithetical to democratic and progressive values, and they should not be tolerated. Props on your efforts and keep up the great work.

In solidarity,
Chris

Michael, keeping the discussion on climate change moderate and well-reasoned is a gift to all of humanity. Addressing climate change isn't about saving the world, it's about saving ourselves and the other species that are presently on Earth. Allowing the climate change issue to become a religious crusade would be a disaster. It's an error, we can't afford. THANK YOU for your work!

Fantastic post, guys. It's really tragic how anyone who voices any dissension is immediately shut down in the toxic climate of environmental science and policy. It's also incredibly frustrating how any dissident has to repeat over and over again that they are not a denier just because they don't agree with the conventional wisdom.

Well, I don't want to go public, but I do want to say thank you for publishing this statement. It is time that we reclaimed open and honest discussion. Thank you!!!

To quote Deep Climate: "Sure, call out Romm on whatever you think he's done wrong. But how about sparing a bit of that outrage for the likes of Patrick Michaels, Marc Morano and Tom Harris, who have done so much to confuse the public on climate change issues."

But maybe you've already been doing so...let me google...

I guess not. Findings:

* Your search - "morano" site:thebreakthrough.org/blog - did not match any documents.
* Results 1 - 2 of 2 from thebreakthrough.org/blog for "harris" (neither of which was Tom Harris)
* Results 1 - 3 of 3 from thebreakthrough.org/blog for "michaels" (none of which was Pat Michaels)

and

* Results 1 - 10 of about 283 from thebreakthrough.org/blog for romm.

Vision, Michael & Ted, vision...

Note to Center for American Progress: As a long-time follower and supporter of your organization, please listen to me when I say that Joe Romm is becoming a serious liability that is increasingly damaging CAP's reputation. I respect much of your work and believe in CAP's potential, but Romm's behavior is inexcusable and should not be tolerated by any organization claiming to represent and promote the progressive movement. I've repeatedly expressed this to Romm in my comments at Climate Progress only to be censored or personally insulted.



If CAP's leadership is interested in preserving its long-term reputation, it must establish higher standards for Climate Progress and seek to restrain Romm's behavior. I understand the difficulty of swallowing your pride, and I understand Romm's aggressive nature. But please -- for the sake of your long-term goals, for the sake of progressive values, and for the sake of basic human decency -- please stop this madness.

Anna, this isn't about Morano or Michaels or Harris, although I hope you're not excusing McCarthyite tactics even against those you may fervently disagree with. Click through the links to some of Romm's posts included above and you'll see him similarly lashing out against committed grassroots activist organizations like Greenpeace and the Energy Action Coalition, climate reporters like Andrew Revkin (NY Times) and Bryan Walsh (TIME), and of course, those of us at the Breakthrough Institute, who are one and all committed to effective and immediate climate action.

One thing is disagreeing with an idea, a another is claiming someone should not or is not allowed to express their views. This is unjustifiable in a democratic society. Disinformation was the same pretext used in mock trials in soviet union and it is not an excuse for silencing, inciting others into trashing someone and the like.

If people don't understand this basic principle, may god help us...

> "Anna, this isn't about Morano or Michaels or Harris"



Jesse, this is about saving the world for human habitation - a cause which isn't helped by running a blog that's fixated on Romm to the extent that it hasn't even *mentioned* the most egregious climate inactivists - my Breakthrougn Institute blog Google search returned 0 mentions of Pat Michaels, 0 mentions of Tom Harris, 0 mentions of Marc Morano, and a gazillion mentions of Romm.



If this is what your funders are paying you to do, they're getting their money's worth. If it isn't...

Anna, would Michael and Ted be justified in their comments about Romm if your search had come up with those names you want to see (I only recognize two of them)? Your logic escapes me.

McCarthyite behavior is wrong. Period. It has no place in the climate debate or any part of American society. Wouldn't you agree?

Kloor went looking for a fight and a bunch of links and he found it. Now everyone is whining. As dsquared said:

Okay, point one. The whole idea of contrarianism is that you’re “attacking the conventional wisdom”, you’re “telling people that their most cherished beliefs are wrong”, you’re “turning the world upside down”. In other words, you’re setting out to annoy people. Now opinions may differ on whether this is a laudable thing to do – I think it’s fantastic – but if annoying people is what you’re trying to do, then you can hardly complain when annoying people is what you actually do. If you start a fight, you can hardly be surprised that you’re in a fight. It’s the definition of passive-aggression and really quite unseemly, to set out to provoke people, and then when they react passionately and defensively, to criticise them for not holding to your standards of a calm and rational debate.

Thanks for dropping by Mr. Halpern. Coming from a guy who won't comment or blog under his own name and recently smeared us by claiming that we where funded by "CEI/Heartland funders" it should come as little surprise that you would defend Romm's McCarthyite behavior.

Some others might say (not Eli of course), that you left out a word or two there, so let us look at the entire paragraph, which, as it happened was talking about how geo-engineering would require a world government

"The bottom line is that geoengineering requires fleets of black helicopters to get done. The requirement for something that will not amuse the guys at the Breakthrough Institute and their CEI/Heartland type funders. (OK, that's a WAGNER, but Eli is a smart bunny). Stuff like that on a global scale requires a global Ghengis Khan to pull the strings."

Now, to be charitable, and we are all charitable here, some might say (not Eli, of course) that it is easy to leave out a word or two when you are crying. Eli fully understands that tearing up is a real problem. However, just for the record, because, of course, it makes not a little bit of difference, there is that word -type- of funders and WAGNER, is a Wild Assed Guess, No Explanation Needed and it would appear reasonable to think that BI gets a lot of its funding from libertarian types. Still, there are others, not Eli of course who would like to know who your funders are. That, of course is their, not Eli's interest.

SNIP. TN: Were Herr Professor Halpern not such a lazy bunny he'd hop across the hall to the political science department where they might explain to him that libertarian funders typically don't fund organizations that advocate MASSIVE STATE INVESTMENT IN THE DEVELOPMENT AND DEPLOYMENT OF CLEAN ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES. But then once a clever bunny gets so far down the McCarthyite rabbet hole such details apparently don't much matter.

Sorry, but there are a bunch of straw men being attacked in this post.

I mainly criticized Superfreakonomics for its shoddy and misleading presentation of climate science, as did William Connolley. (That post of mine you linked cites Romm only at the end.) A lot of other critics also focused on serious mistakes in the book that had absolutely nothing to do with Romm. Delong raised a whole slew of concerns. Krugman discussed the book's misreading of Marty Weitzman's research. These were all valid objections, and trying to wave them away as mere "bullying" is wrong.

Look, it would have been perfectly fine if Dubner/Levitt had just wanted to discuss the subject of geo-engineering. Plenty of other people have done so and that's a good discussion to have. But Dubner/Levitt came under fire because there was a lot of rubbish in their book—and that's true regardless of how you feel about Joe Romm.

Ah there is a character limit.

The diode lasers have too high a divergence to be used for the down link and the Nd lasers he proposes are not nearly that efficient. It is tough to see how diode laser pumped Nd lasers could be better than 20% efficient, and more likely much less than that. Then we get to the issue that neither type of laser is eyesafe.

Again, apologies for the divergence, but this actually is an issue that Eli is interested in

Plumer, Why not look at what you wrote?

"What's more, as Joe Romm reports, the main scientist that Levitt and Dubner actually interviewed, Ken Caldeira, says they've completely twisted and mischaracterized his views—a glaring bit of journalistic malfeasance."
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-vine/superfreakonomics-needs-redo

Now lets look at what Caldeira actually says:

"They sent me the draft and I approved it without reading it carefully and I just missed it. … I think everyone operated in good faith, and this was just a mistake that got by my inadequate editing."
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-vine/superfreakonomics-needs-redo

And when asked how to correct the chapter, what does Caldeira say when asked how he'd like the chapter changed?

"So, given all this drama, and how extensively Caldeira’s views and research figured in our global-warming chapter, we wrote to him and offered to change anything in the chapter in future printings if indeed we failed to portray his research and views accurately.

Here’s the only change he requested:

You could just change it to “However, carbon dioxide may not be the right villain in this fight” or something like that and not attribute it to me.

So while you may try to hide behind "science", the fact of the matter here is that you jumped on a bandwagon uncritically, amplifying Romm in his misrepresentation of Caldeira's (nonexistent) outrage.

Given Caldeira's actual statements, shouldn't you rethink 9and retract) the comment that Levitt and Dubner "completely twisted and mischaracterized" his words?

If you get into mud with pigs, you will get dirty.

Plumer, Why not look at what you wrote?

"What's more, as Joe Romm reports, the main scientist that Levitt and Dubner actually interviewed, Ken Caldeira, says they've completely twisted and mischaracterized his views—a glaring bit of journalistic malfeasance."
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-vine/superfreakonomics-needs-redo

Now lets look at what Caldeira actually says:

"They sent me the draft and I approved it without reading it carefully and I just missed it. … I think everyone operated in good faith, and this was just a mistake that got by my inadequate editing."
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-vine/superfreakonomics-needs-redo

And when asked how to correct the chapter, what does Caldeira say when asked how he'd like the chapter changed?

"So, given all this drama, and how extensively Caldeira’s views and research figured in our global-warming chapter, we wrote to him and offered to change anything in the chapter in future printings if indeed we failed to portray his research and views accurately.

Here’s the only change he requested:

You could just change it to “However, carbon dioxide may not be the right villain in this fight” or something like that and not attribute it to me.

So while you may try to hide behind "science", the fact of the matter here is that you jumped on a bandwagon uncritically, amplifying Romm in his misrepresentation of Caldeira's (nonexistent) outrage.

Given Caldeira's actual statements, shouldn't you rethink (and retract) the comment that Levitt and Dubner "completely twisted and mischaracterized" his words?

If you get into mud with pigs, you will get dirty.

Sigh. Plumer, sure, but apparently you are missing the point. The Superfreakonomics book sucks balls. Got it? I agree. That fact does not excuse Romm's behavior or yours in condoning it, apparently because he is convenient for your arguments.

Can you tell the difference between these two perspectives? Or are these one and the same for you?

My 5:10 AM post was submitted after Plumer's 5:55AM, what gives?

Sigh. Yes, in an update to the very post of mine you're referring to I linked to Dubner's reply (in which he explains what happens with Caldeira). I thought it was a reasonable response and said so. But it doesn't excuse the many other errors in the book. That shouldn't be hard to understand.

Fact Check and everyone else -- Sorry about the time stamp change. Our system was on GMT, and we just changed it to PDT. Should be working fine now. Michael

Sigh. Plumer, sure, but apparently you are missing the point. The Superfreakonomics book sucks balls. Got it? I agree. That fact does not excuse Romm's behavior or yours in condoning it, apparently because he is convenient for your arguments. Can you tell the difference between these two perspectives? Or are these one and the same for you?

"The Superfreakonomics book sucks balls. Got it? I agree."

Okay, fair enough. The authors of the original post don't seem to agree, though, and I was originally responding to them.

Anyway, I'm not condoning anything. Romm was wrong to suggest that Dubner and Levitt never tried to show Caldeira the chapter apparently they did. But Romm was still right that Dubner and Levitt mischaracterized Caldeira's work. They wrote that his research told him CO2 was not the right villain. That sentence was 100% wrong, and the error is Dubner/Levitt's responsibility, regardless of whether they asked Caldeira skim the chapter ahead of publishing. Now, maybe I was too harsh in calling it "journalistic malfeasance." I should've clarified that it appears to be a good-faith error caused by total ignorance in their subject matter, like so much else in the chapter. But it's still a mischaracterization.

Speaking of misrepresentations Brad, what part of this -- "Now, neither of us are fans of the idea of shooting sulfur particles into the sky. Too many risks and possible unintended consequences (some quite predictable). But we, like Caldeira, support funding for research, and are open to changing our minds" -- wasn't clear to you?

Plumer, was that an acceptance of responsibility for your errors? Sorta kind maybe? Any more squirming and waving of hands and attempted misdirection and I would have been like totally convinced. Not.

Either own up to your screwups like an intellectually honest person, or go away.

Really nice post! I look foward to reading part II.

Ted, re your update: Sorry if I wasn't clear. I understand that you're skeptical about geoengineering and disagree with Dubner and Levitt on that point.

What I meant in my reply to "Fact Check" was that your original post didn't acknowledge that the book makes a lot of egregious errors and misleading claims about very basic issues, even setting the Caldeira stuff aside, which was a major reason why so many people criticized it. You're accusing everyone of just blindly following Joe Romm, which is where I disagree—his posts weren't the sole basis for the various critiques.

Anyway, if you agree that the book is full of glaring errors, and just forgot to mention that in the original post, well, in that case, thanks for clarifying. I really don't think I'm being a McCarthyite here, as you suggest in your update, but oh, feel free to use whatever insult you see fit—just please do try to spell my name correctly. Thanks.

Reading this thread is like looking into a sewer. This rodent character is spraying his vitriol all over the internet. Very depressing.

Brad,




Thank you for clarifying your intent and correcting your mischaracterization of our views on Superfreakonomics and geo-engineering. There are indeed a number of errors in the global warming chapter of which, as you note, much has been made by you, Romm, and many others.



But there is also much in that chapter that Dubner and Levitt get right, about which much less has been made, most especially the utter insufficiency of current or proposed policies to achieve substantial emissions reductions, the high cost of existing alternative energy technologies, and the resulting high costs of mitigation given current technological options.



These points, largely ignored in the scathing attacks upon the book by you and others, are a good deal more significant than the obsession with Nathan Myrhvold's views about black solar panels or whether Ken Caldiera was accurately portrayed in the book (given what we know of Caldiera's communications with the authors, his prior writing on the topic, and the tepid retraction he has actually requested it is difficult to conclude that he was not fairly and accurately represented).



The main issue at hand remain, which is Romm's effort to intimidate reporters and the tacit acceptance, if not outright approval, of these practices by other bloggers, including you. You piled on once Romm attacked ("mobbing," in the parlance of bullying), reflexively repeating Romm's charges, and casually adding as an update to your post simply that Dubner had responded.



So let's be clear. In the update you never acknowledged that Dubner and Levitt had not misrepresented Caldeira -- a fact which Caldeira acknowledges. You did not mention in your update that Romm had planted Caldiera's quote and misrepresented his correspondence with Caldiera. Nor did you acknowledge that Dubner had shown Romm's charges to be false. Instead, you excused Romm's misrepresentations and your amplification of them because Dubner hadn't corrected the other errors in the book.



Further, in the comment above you misrepresent what you actually said in your update. You wrote, "I thought it was a reasonable response and said so" -- in fact, you said nothing of the sort in your update.



You know as well as we do that Romm engages in this kind of thing routinely, and that you rushed to pile on to his attacks without investigating for yourself. I can find no evidence that you or any of the other prominent bloggers and columnists we cited have ever publicly rebuked Romm for his behavior, which is toxic to civil and healthy democratic discourse.



Ted

Levitt and Dubner claim that Caldeira believes that carbon dioxide is the wrong villain. This misrepresents Caldeira's views. Caldeira saw this line in a draft and objected to it. Even though Levitt and Dubner saw this objection, they left it in. Dubner no longer disputes this. (See his latest post.)

So rather than showing Romm's charge that he misrepresented Caldeira to be false, Dubner now concedes that it was true.

An excellent article. May I correct you on one point. The country's most-read climate blogger is not Joe Romm, but Anthony Watts, whose wattsupwiththat climate blog is read by roughly twice as many internet users as Romms, according to the Alexa web information site.

Wattsupwiththat also ranks above climate progress on the wikio list of top science blogs.

Ted, respectfully, I have to disagree about Caldeira. Dubner/Levitt really did misrepresent his views with that "right villain" sentence, and I'm not going to retract my saying so. I do think Dubner's explanation in his latest post of how the error happened is reasonable (they didn't realize why Caldeira was objecting to the sentence), but it's still an error. As far as I can tell, the main thing Romm got wrong initially was that he claimed Dubner/Levitt never ran the quote by Caldeira. But on his other points, Romm appears to be correct.

Your other argument, that people should've focused more on Dubner/Levitt's points about the impossibility of curbing emissions, rather than their many serious errors and misleading statements, is fair enough, but grave errors in best-selling books always attract more attention than the reasonable points. I guess I just disagree that this counts as McCarthyism.

Brad,



I did not suggest in my comment that curbing emissions is impossible and neither do Dubner and Levitt. They do suggest that the current framework for doing so has failed and will continue to fail, that the technological challenges to doing so are a good deal more substantial than you and Romm acknowledge, and that the costs as such, given current technologies are very high and represent a substantial obstacle to effective emissions reduction action. On these points, Dubner and Levitt, Caldiera (the ostensible victim in the drama that you, Romm, and others have manufactured), and Michael and I are in agreement. Indeed, in his correspondence with Dubner and Levitt, Caldiera writes:

"My pessimism stems from the apparent difficulties of solving the "prisoner's dilemma"- and "tragedy of the commons"-type aspects of this problem."


And in his controversial New York Times op-ed from 2007 he is even clearer on this point:

"Despite growing interest in clean energy technology, it looks as if we are not going to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide anytime soon. The amount in the atmosphere today exceeds the most pessimistic forecasts made just a few years ago, and it is increasing faster than anybody had foreseen."


Your reduction and mischaracterization of this view to "the impossibility of emissions reduction" is as good an example as any of the ways that you, Romm, and others in the climate blogosphere continually attempt to narrow climate politics to a pitched battle between those who believe that we are going to eliminate global carbon emissions with light bulbs and off the shelf technologies like wind and solar, and so-called "deniers/delayers" who Romm and others say are undermining efforts to save the planet - in Krugman's words, to "commit treason to the planet."



The fact that Dubner and Levitt have offered to revise a single sentence in the book does not in fact constitute an acknowledgment of significant error in the representation of Caldiera. Caldiera has acknowledged that the book's representation of him is accurate and that the change that Dubner and Levitt in fact made in the manuscript was a reasonable response to his comments. The attempt by Romm and now you to manufacture this revision into a major retraction and acknowledgement of error is a tried and true tactic. Get your opponent to acknowledge a minor mistake and then blow it up to suggest that it is evidence that the entire argument is bogus. It is one reason that retractions and corrections have become so uncommon in contemporary political discourse - because opponents use them to imply much greater error than the corrections themselves actually represent.



Finally, it is pretty clear in the original post, the update, and my comments that we are suggesting that you have participated in the "mobbing" of Dubner and Levitt, not being the primary source of McCarthyite behavior. McCarthyism is a very strong word and a serious charge and we reserve it for Romm. But McCarthyism requires enablers and mobbing, as noted in the post is a common feature of bullying. In the workplace, mobbing refers to "ganging up" by others to harass and intimidate an individual." It is hard not to read your post in the context of the overheated reaction from climate bloggers and conclude that the reaction to Superfreakonomics has been a classic case of mobbing and that you have been party to it.



Ted

Tim,



It is quite revealing that you continue to misrepresent Superfreakonomics even after it has become clear that the authors represented Caldeira's views quite well. That they offered to modify a single sentence is not an acknowledgment that they misrepresented Caldeira.



On October 16 you claimed that "Everything in Superfreakonomics about Global Warming is Wrong". If you believe that then you also believe there is no connection between carbon emissions and global warming, a connection the authors clearly and repeatedly state as a fact.



Admit it, Tim, you mobbed Superfreakonomics on Joe Romm's signal, just like Plumer, Yglesias, Roberts and Krugman did. There's no evidence you read the book before making your claim that "everything" in it on global warming is wrong -- which may be why you don't actually refer to the book in your post, only to an excerpt in the Sunday Times. If you did read the book you grossly misrepresented it. Either way, you did not investigate before making your wild accusations.



If you care at all about accuracy and integrity, you need to retract your post, and correct your comment above.



Michael

This discussion is going around in circles, so I'll just repeat a few quick points and leave it at that.

Ted N: It's going around in circles because you continue to shift the discussion away from Romm's latest effort to intimidate and discredit a well regarded journalist who had criticized him.

1) Superfreakonomics made a lot of grave errors and misleading claims about climate science (and about things like solar panels) that had absolutely nothing to do with Caldeira. Given that it's a book a lot of people will likely read and discuss, it was very much worth criticizing and rebutting these errors, which was a big focus of my original post. Complaining that this sort of criticism constitutes "ganging up" or "mobbing" is silly.

Ted: There is much less than meets the eye to the errors that you and other critics have alleged. The number of errors and their magnitude has been exaggerated in order to discredit Dubner and Levitt rather than deal with the main argument of the chapter which is that based upon the last several decades of experience and the current absurdly inadequate efforts to address global carbon emissions, we probably need to start thinking about other ways to deal with climate change.

2) On the Caldeira point: Yes, Dubner/Levitt did misrepresent Caldeira's views, which is bad, but this particular mistake was probably not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, especially given all their other, more serious, errors. If the sentence about the "right villain" had been the only error, it wouldn't have been worth an endless round of blog posts. Alas, it wasn't the only error.

Ted: I think it's been pretty well demonstrated in the comment above that Dubner and Levitt did not misrepresent Caldeira's views. That charge is based upon a single sentence that Dubner and Levitt revised at Caldeira's request. Caldeira did not explicitly ask that any part of that sentence be revised. He offered an ambiguous comment suggesting that he had a somewhat different view than Myhrvold. Dubner and Levitt revised the paragraph in a manner that was entirely appropriate given Caldeira's comment upon reviewing the manuscript. Not much point in debating it further. Folks can make up their own minds.



3) Debating the difficulty of reducing CO2 emissions, and how best to do it, is a totally valid discussion and I hope we have more of it. I certainly don't want to shut down that debate, though I'm sure you'll find some way to accuse me of doing so. In my last comment I should've written "difficulty" rather than "impossibility," but it was just a hasty word choice, not some dastardly attempt to "narrow climate politics."

Ted: I'll accept your explanation that the choice of words in your prior comment was just hasty and not intentional. However this is the second time in your comments to this post that you have had to take back your words. In the first case your word choice implied that we agreed with Superfreakonomics, and in the second that we thought emissions reductions were impossible. In both cases your misstatements indicate a very particular pattern of misunderstanding.

PaulM wrote:


An excellent article. May I correct you on one point. The country's most-read climate blogger is not Joe Romm, but Anthony Watts, whose wattsupwiththat climate blog is read by roughly twice as many internet users as Romms, according to the Alexa web information site. Wattsupwiththat also ranks above climate progress on the wikio list of top science blogs.


PaulM: Thank you for this. I went to Alexa.com and indeed you are correct. We stand corrected. I shouldn't have taken Romm's word for it. We will make the change.

Michael, the title of my post is hyperbole. Hyperbole is exaggeration for emphasis and is not meant literally. I chose that title to reflect the title for the Sunday Times extract which was "Why Everything You Think You Know About Global Warming Is Wrong". This was also hyperbole and I haven't you notice demanded a retraction.

Tell me, Michael, if someone says: "I'm so hungry, I could eat a horse!", do you point out that their stomach volume is insufficient to hold an entire horse and that if they care about accuract and integrity they should issue a retraction?

If you had read my post you would have noticed that I document ten serious errors just in that extract and not counting the ones that William Connolley found. If you had read my post, you would have noticed that I am not echoing Romm, or taking Romm's word for anything except one quote from Caldeira. I wrote the post after reading chapter 5 of the book because I was appalled at how badly they got the science wrong. I was particularly disappointed because I liked their previous book and had spent a fair amount of time defending it against what I considered unfair criticism.

Try not to fit everything that happens into your feud with Joe Romm.

Tim,



I believe you when you say that you had exaggerated your headline to make a point. In this way your headline was consistent with your exaggerated review, which neither represented the argument of the chapter nor said anything of about what the authors got right about global warming.



Your claim that your ten complaints about the book represent "ten serious errors" is also a gross exaggeration. The first three misrepresent the Caldeira affair. All are minor. And none contradict the larger argument the chapter makes, which is that efforts to reduce emissions have failed, for good reasons. There is a huge technology and price gap between low-carbon power and fossil fuels. Apocalypse mongering will not motivate governments or their citizens to make fossil fuels more expensive. And the religious discourse on climate is counterproductive.



It's quite telling that you chose to not even represent the core argument of the book in your review. You offer not a single sentence that states the argument above. You elevated minor issues -- as did Romm and his other followers -- as a way to get reviewers and readers to dismiss the book. And above in the comments you continued to misrepresent the exchange between the authors and Caldeira.



You say above that you actually read the global warming chapter of their book. How curious, then, that you chose not to refer to it in your review.



Michael

You might get the wrong impression, although Eli would not, but some others, not Eli, whem MS writes

"You say above that you actually read the global warming chapter of their book. How curious, then, that you chose not to refer to it in your review."

But if, as Eli did, you read the post, the reason is clear.

"Wm Connolley stopped when he had found ten serious errors, so I'll continue where he left off and see if I can find ten more. To make it more of a challenge, I'm just going to look at the extract that appeared in the Sunday Times entitled "Why Everything You Think You Know About Global Warming Is Wrong"."

Roy would have been proud

TN writes, "I can find no evidence that you or any of the other prominent bloggers and columnists we cited have ever publicly rebuked Romm for his behavior, which is toxic to civil and healthy democratic discourse."

Nice addition of the "we cited" escape clause. If you look a little more broadly you get William Connolley at Stoat who went after Romm quite harshly long before your post here:

http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2009/06/foaming_at_the_mouth_with_joe.php

Now the funny thing about that is what Connolley had to say about the Superfreaks and how it contrasted with your approach:

"Joe Romm has a fairly characteristic attack; and just for a change I'll agree with him; though he chooses odd bits to assault."

http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2009/10/superfreakonomics_global_cooli.php

Personally I think Connolley is over-harsh with Romm, while I also think Romm is insufficiently cautious about his interpretations of what he's learned.

It's more than clear, however, that Superfreaks wrote a horribly-flawed chapter. While I'm no one of consequence, I was able to write three posts critiquing Levitt and Dubner without once referencing Romm, and I doubt I'm the only one.

I think the most telling part of TN's post was citing favorably to Jon Stewart's puff-piece interview of Levitt, the shoddiest work I've ever seen from Stewart. It was a content-free response that ignored the many substantive criticisms to the chapter, and here we see it repeated again, beyond a few cursory acknowledgments of errors.

Did Freakonomics misrepresent Weitzman:

http://www.standupeconomist.com/blog/economics/more-superfreakonomics-emails-from-steven-levitt/

"Weitzman says (more or less) that “the future holds a 5 percent chance of a terrible-case scenario—a rise of more than 10 degrees Celcius”, but you’re making it sound like Weitzman is arguing that there’s a 95 percent change of an outcome that is not a “worldwide catastrophe”. My belief is that this is a misleading read of Weitzman, and if you don’t believe me you should ask Weitzman if he’s happy with how you’ve described his research. (Actually, heck, you’re probably busy elsewhere, so I’ll ask Weitzman and let you know what he says.) [Update: We had a nice email conversation with Weitzman, I asked him if he thought the book was a misleading representation of his views... and he basically said No. He didn't exactly come out and say it was fine, but... plus one for Levitt, and minus one for me.]"

A few times in the past I've tried to engage Romm in an honest debate. In one instance I pointed out that if the Big Stone 2 power plant in South Dakota were built, the emissions of listed pollutants (NOX, SOX, mercury, particulates) of both plants running would be less than Big Stone 1's current emissions. In addition, BS 2 is much higher in efficiency and therefore produces less CO2 per MWH than Big Stone 1. In dispatch order, BS 2 would be preferred because of lower fuel rates. In opposing BS 2 environmentalists were causing MORE pollution and CO2 to be emitted.

Romm went ballistic on me, accusing me of being a coal company shill (I'm not) and spreading coal talking points (to my knowledge coal hasn't made the reverse global warming claim).

Romm dismisses IGCC or nuclear as too expensive, but he loves solar power, which can be even more expensive. When I called him on this he resorted to name calling.

Brian,


We cited the bloggers and columnists we cited because they are a) prominent and widely read b) they have promoted or amplified Romm's attacks and c) none of them have ever as far as we can tell, publicly objected to Romm's McCarthyite tactics. Connelly meets none of these criteria so we didn't cite him, as we didn't cite hundreds of other bloggers who write on these topics. I am unfamiliar with your blog so I can't comment on b or c but given that you yourself describe yourself as "no one of consequence" I imagine that you wouldn't put yourself in the same category as the folks we cited in our post. Connell is to be commended for calling out Romm and you for at least acknowledging that Levitt and Dubner got some things right in their climate change chapter.



Ted

Dubner and Levitt failed to change the "villain" quote, even after Caldeira objected to it.

At the time that Caldeira wrote that he thought the authors were in "good faith" and accepted responsibility for failing to find the misquote, he also thought that they had not received his objection to the attribution of the "villain" line to him.

Caldeira wrote: "I do not think my edited version was ever returned to Dubner ... because it got lost." (This edited version was based on a draft forwarded to Caldeira by Nathan Myrhvold).

But it turned out the authors had received his objection, yet still didn't change the quote. That's an essential fact missing from Dubner's (and your) account.

Anna Haynes above (quoting DeepClimate) made a very important point: The choice to focus on the lesser of two evils raises eyebrows with people who are concerned about scientific (and especially climate) literacy. Especially when it's accompanied by an implicit approval of those who twist the science around, and a disapproval of anyone who defends the science (eg by approvingly quoting Stewart calling all critics dogmaitc environmentalists).
I'm not defending Joe Romm; I'm not a fan of his tactics at all. But is it too much to ask to leave some criticism for those who obfuscate the science? (Levitt and Dubner in this particular case, but also valid more in general, as Anna pointed out above).

Very interesting. Joe Romm trashed me (on his site, and Huffington) for my views on peak oil, with a very misleading post and the question was how to respond, whether to try to engage him in serious debate. Hmmmmmmm.

Wow... I love the fact that you insult Tim for his "exaggerated headline" when your headline is similarly exaggerated. While, in fact, I do disagree with Romm's use of inflammatory language and occasional exaggeration of climate science, I have to say that he is nowhere _close_ to "McCarthyism", and this blog post is right in line with all the tactics that you are critiquing. I also agree with the critiques of Freakonomics - and yes, I did read the chapter, and to me it was fairly obvious that the takeaway message of the chapter was "why reduce CO2 when we have the cheap and easy geoengineering solution". The quotes of Caldeira in the book and Crutzen in their blogs are an obvious tactic to lend weight to their arguments but my understanding from having talked with Caldeira and Crutzen is that they think that geoengineering is a last resort option to be done in addition to mitigation, and which deserves some research funding just in case its needed - not an uncommon philosophy among climate scientists, but it wouldn't make good controversy for a book chapter. And I also agree wtih critiques of the Breakthrough Institute because the B.I. is certainly lending its arguments against any kind of carbon price while stating "There is a huge technology and price gap between low-carbon power and fossil fuels" - yes, you certainly do lobby to fix the technology gap, but continually lobby against the best efforts available to fix the price gap. Finally, it is very distasteful to take someone's internet handle and dig up their real name - yet another McCarthyism tactic.

Dear Dave,



Please point to any insult to Tim. He acknowledged exaggerating his headline for his review of Superfreakonomics and I pointed out that he did the same in his review. At least he had the courage to use his real name.



Our headline above is not exaggerated. Romm knows fully well that the term -- global warming denier -- evokes comparisons with Holocaust deniers, as does Wikipedia and anybody who has followed this debate.



Nice job misrepresenting our position on carbon pricing -- we've been consistently for one. And please point to our lobbying against -- the best efforts to fix the price gap -- what exactly would that be? Would that be the same climate bill that would not require any emissions reductions until 2027? Or the climate bill that prices carbon at $10 a ton for the forseeable future? Or the climate bill that puts $1 billion instead of Obama's promised $15 billion a year into tech R&D? Oh, that's right, those are all the same bill.



And while you're at it, please explain how it is okay for Professor Joshua Halperin of Howard University to lie about where we get our funding -- claiming that we are funded by CEI and Heartland Institute -- under a pseudonym, but it's 'McCarthyite' for us to call him by his real name. You'd think tenured professors of chemistry would have the courage to make their accusations publicly and then back them up with evidence. Not in the case of Halperin, and apparently not in your case either.



Michael

Dave ... Eli Rabbett's real name is hardly a secret. Where have you been?

Your comparing Joe Romm to Joe McCarthy is apt. Both Joes use the same tactics. Both Joes have no tolerance for dissent. Both Joes are driven by anger, not reason. Kudos for taking a firm stand against McCarthy-type tactics.


Though it was about an unimportant point, my own experience with Joe Romm is telling. A year or two ago Pat Oliphant published an editorial cartoon about the Chevy Volt. The car he showed in the cartoon had a huge cable rolled up on top of it. The cable was labeled "40 mile extension cord."


That cartoon enraged Joe Romm. He called on his followers to complain to the Washington Post. He thought Oliphant should be fired. The reason? Joe Romm thought Oliphant had misrepresented how the Chevy Volt worked.

I left a post on Joe Romm's blog suggesting that Oliphant did indeed misrepresent the Chevy Volt. Anyone looking at the cartoon would see that. Oliphant was not trying to represent the Chevy Volt accurately. It was a joke.


Joe Romm was kind enough to respond to my post personally. With a personal attack against me.

No matter what your views on global warming, Joe Romm's tactics should make you quail. There's no place for them, just like there was no place for Joe McCarthy's.

Ah, yes. I guess I exaggerated a bit too. Exaggerations all around! (I still claim you are exaggerating when you claim that Joe Romm == McCarthy - I will note that you have not been investigated by the FBI, blacklisted from the movie industry, summoned before Congress for hostile interrogations, etc.) I will also point out that statements such as the following do not help your case:

"Or the climate bill that prices carbon at $10 a ton for the forseeable future?"

My understanding is that Waxman-Markey and Kerry-Boxer both have initial prices around $10 - but those prices go up at 5% greater than the discount rate (7% after 2020 in the Kerry-Boxer case). A carbon price floor will ensure that there are reductions before 2027, as will a number of other mechanisms, so that's statement of yours is pretty much wrong, too. And there is more money going into tech R&D than just the climate bill - stimulus funding, regular appropriations, etc. - so that's another misrepresentation.

I think there probably would be some room for agreement between your stance and Romm's stance: if you agree that a carbon price is good, Romm would agree that aggressive investment in energy technologies are good. One problem is Romm's aggressive language. Another problem is that the Breakthrough Institute sure does give the impression that it is trying to torpedo the best attempts to put a carbon price on the U.S. economy in the name of "we think there's a better way of doing this, and your way will never pass". The misrepresentations of W-M and K-B carbon price floors, likely reductions before 2027, etc. are examples of why there are some portions of the "climate policy orthodoxy" (if there really is such a thing - there's plenty of disagreement about policy issues among the people I listen to) that take offense at some of the Breakthrough Institute work.

Dave,



You are incorrect in claiming that "A carbon price floor will ensure that there are reductions before 2027." Maybe there will be reductions. But the carbon price does not insure it. A price of $10 -- or $15 or much higher -- does not ensure that. Europe reached $40/ton and they went ahead with their plans to build coal plants, thanks to the magic of offsets.



As for money for tech, I never said there wasn't other money going to R&D. Breakthrough has consistently praised the stimulus for doing precisely that.



Please explain why you have the impression that we're trying to "torpedo the best attempts to put a carbon price on." Is that because we've actually analyzed what the bill would and would not require? If so, are you against us doing analysis? Evidence, please.



If you're going make serious claims here, like that we've misrepresented climate legislation, you had better back it up by evidence.



Michael

Request: "If you're going make serious claims here, like that we've misrepresented climate legislation, you had better back it up by evidence. "

Evidence: "Or the climate bill that prices carbon at $10 a ton for the forseeable future?"

A great post. It needed to be said. Kudos.

Dave,



We analyzed the bill here:



http://thebreakthrough.org/blog/2009/09/climate_bill_analysis_part_20.shtml



And Point Carbon, the first firm to analyze the likely carbon price under the draft Kerry-Boxer bill, concluded similarly that the carbon price under the bill would remain at the floor price through 2019.



Michael

Wow! I am impressed that a pro-alarmist blog takes norms of civility and inquiry seriously. As someone who used to take the alarmists seriously, the fact that so many alarmists used witch-hunt tactics against those who questioned any aspect of the orthodoxy led me to doubt them. As someone who believes that J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" is a sacred text of liberalism, that freeedom of thought, freedom of inquiry, and freedom of speech are core liberal values, any time anyone in science or who claims to be "liberal" attacks someone else for expressing an unorthodox belief I realize that the attacker has betrayed principles I hold sacred. Three cheers for Shellenberger and Nordhaus for standing up to the Inquisitors!!!

It is good to see an interesting thread posted here and it is followed up by some very active and good discussions. I enjoyed reading the blog and the comments with some crucial facts. Keep up the good work.

I am firmly on the skeptic side of this issue, but I read both sides to make sure new information hasn't changed my position. I've read quite a bit of Romm's work and have found him to be a bully whose main argument against solid positions is simply to call the person a liar.

This technique is not very persuasive and I have long felt Romm does more harm than good for your side of the argument.

This article is referred to on the A Watts board today. It also seems today Romm has tried to attack Joe Bastardi using the above described template.

Romm:

"Joe Bastardi is pushing anti-science global cooling conspiracy theories"

If we are going to be serious about climate change we have to be ready for warming or cooling.

And if the warming/cooling is natural, attacking CO2 is going to do exactly zero except make CO2 traders rich. Are you listening Al Gore?

And further. When exactly did progressives become the tools of aristocrats? You know - robbing from the poor (higher energy prices) to help the rich.

When I was growing up progressives stood for helping the poor by lowering their costs of survival.

Breakthrough has consistently praised the stimulus for doing precisely that.

One of the biggest and relatively unheralded research efforts to come out of the stim bill is funding for the US Navy work on the Polywell Fusion Reactor.

Notice: No one here at this prestigious blog has brought up the issue of zombies. If this planet truly runs the risk of either catastrophic warming or destruction by cap and tax economics, you're going to have zombies. Just visit any bookseller or cineplex or skim through DIshTV offerings. What do you see? That's right: zombies!

My point: you eggheads and policy wonks, as usual, drift behind the curve while our auteurs and artists and writers lead the way envisioning our future. We can do absolutely nothing to effect (or is it 'affect'? Darn. I never get that right!) this planet's climate but we're going to generate conditions that inevitably produce zombies the way you progressives and freakonomic types are going. Zimbabwe's got'em right now. So's Congo. They had to do it the old fashioned way: burn, confiscate, pillage, starve, general run-a-mock-with-sticks-and-pitchforks misbehavior and such. Rate the present administration is pushing various suicide mission debt infested bills, we're not far behind. Our demise comes top-down.

Zombies? Really SirRuncibleSpoon? Let's keep this serious discussion of global warming on topic please.

Yeah. Blame it all on Romm. Sure he is insane, but he is not your problem. The problem you have is believing the world will get warmer when all observations tells you it's not. It's showed time and time again that climate change is not human induced. But facts don't matter in a religion. Thats right. Look at your own work, you are truly a religion, and facts don't matter to you.

Yeah. Blame it all on Romm. Sure he is insane, but he is not your problem. The problem you have is believing the world will get warmer when all observations tells you it's not. It's showed time and time again that climate change is not human induced. But facts don't matter in a religion. Thats right. Look at your own work, you are truly a religion, and facts don't matter to you.

Yeah. Blame it all on Romm. Sure he is insane, but he is not your problem. The problem you have is believing the world will get warmer when all observations tells you it's not. It's showed time and time again that climate change is not human induced. But facts don't matter in a religion. Thats right. Look at your own work, you are truly a religion, and facts don't matter to you.

Yeah. Blame it all on Romm. Sure he is insane, but he is not your problem. The problem you have is believing the world will get warmer when all observations tells you it's not. It's showed time and time again that climate change is not human induced. But facts don't matter in a religion. Thats right. Look at your own work, you are truly a religion, and facts don't matter to you.

Yeah. Blame it all on Romm. Sure he is insane, but he is not your problem. The problem you have is believing the world will get warmer when all observations tells you it's not. It's showed time and time again that climate change is not human induced. But facts don't matter in a religion. Thats right. Look at your own work, you are truly a religion, and facts don't matter to you.

Post a comment




Remember Me?

(you may use basic HTML tags for style)
Use the <br> tag for line breaks (returns).

HTML is allowed, but in an effort to prevent SPAM if your entry contains URL's it will be held briefly for moderation.

Please email comments@thebreakthrough.org if you're experiencing problems when trying to comment.

Breakthrough Blog
RSS Subscribe to RSS Feed

twitter Follow the BTI on Twitter

twitter Join the BTI on Facebook

donate to Breakthrough

Recent Breakthrough Blog Posts Archives
Categories
Contributors
Blog advertisement
Nau Clothing
 
 
Privacy : Contact